Hi, I have been watching this forum for months while preparing to start my first planted tank. So far, I have got a 2-feet tank and DIY a canopy with lights and fans. Bought a second-hand CO2 tank. Substrate wise, I will be using Gex. Have not decided on the flora and fauna for the tank yet.
Before I start planting, I hope to get everything I need in place, thus would like to seek advise on some matters I am not too sure about.
The many different kinds of fertilisers available in the market confuses me. With my limited knowledge and exposure, I have planned to try starting off with Wonder-Gro Macro and Micro, and Wonder-Gro Pro Root+ (if there are any rooted plants). Are these good enough for an average tank? When should I start dosing? Is it sufficient to just follow the dosing instructions that comes with the products?
The next question is regarding all the equipment necessary to monitor the tank environment. I reckon that I will need a thermometer for temperature. What other test kits do I need to monitor things like PH, KH, CO2 level etc? And nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, and also trace elements like Iron. Wow seems like a lot of things needed. Anyone can recommend what are needed and how do I go about monitoring them?
Thanks for any advise and information.
I guess alot of bros here would agree that wonder-grp liquid ferts is a good for beginners. But what plants do you intend to have?
If you are dosing via EI, you wouldnt need test kits. Co2 and thermometer however needs monitoring via thermometer and PH drop checker. Stuff like ammonia, nitrites, nitrate, iron are good to have but not always necessary.
I have lots of test kits bought on day one which i havent use yet....
Never create what you can't control
Test kits are useful if you need to set up your tank according to certain requirements, or in case of any issues/mishaps, they can help in diagnosing the causes.
They are also useful especially for beginners when one is still learning the basics of the planted aquaria, how one thing interacts with another in the tank's ecosystem.
However, most test kits may not be as accurate (there may be faulty kits), so they are good as reference points.
Thanks for the advise. What is EI by the way?
estimate index. read about it here. Good stuff.
http://www.barrreport.com/estimative...test-kits.html
Thanks torque. I have read the article but the amount of information confuses me further. It seems like I have to do even more tests to confirm the uptake rate of my tank?!! What I have gathered is that I should and its is alright to dose slighlty more fertilisers than my plants need, and do water changes to reset the parameters. Can I just follow the dosing recommendations of Wonder-Gro products then, to ease myself from doing all the calculations and chemistry till I have more experience?
For monitoring CO2, do I just get a drop checker set with indicator solution? Is that enough to determine the optimum CO2 level, or do I need to calculate from pH and KH?
It is helpful indeed to know that I can skip most of the test kits till I want to learn more about the chemical compositions of the water. Have been postponing my 1st tank setup in fear of my lack of knowledge in this area.
Gemo82,
From another point of view, choosing a fertiliser to use is very much influenced by personal preference. Take an example of buying a toothbrush. All of us know very well the function of a toothbrush, making it very easy for us to choose from the many brands displayed on the shelves. Cost & personal preference become the determining factor in choosing the "right" toothbrush.
The similar concept applies when choosing fertilisers for a planted tank. One has to know what is required by the plant before choosing the right fertiliser (& fertilising regime) to follow. IMO, choosing "compatible" plants for a tank is a crucial skill (I'm very poor at this) as all the plants in a tank get the same fertiliser regime. In general, all plants need macro (N,P,K) in big amount & micro in small quantity. Some plants may need more P or Fe to thrive.
IMHO, the different types of fertilisers displayed in the LFS existed & remained in the market for some reasons. Some are targeting the cost conscious group of buyers (does not mean that they are lousy product), while others are targeting on quality (as well as style). However, it does not mean that good & expensive fertilisers will guarantee excellent plant growth with no algaebecause fertiliser is only form part of the equation to a successful planted tank.
When I started with this wonderful hobby few years back, I tried dry fertilisers, ADA, Dennerle & also Wonder-Gro. Back then, none of my plants was growing well until recently when I started to understand more about plants (from this forum & also books).
Now, I'm using Wonder-Gro (only need 2 bottles, macro & micro for all the plants I have in my tank). I'm very sure that if I switch to dry fertilisers, ADA or Dennerle, I'll be still getting more or less the same result.
Last edited by uklau; 8th Jul 2008 at 08:55.
Cheers,
U.K.Lau
For CO2 monitoring, I always use this simple method (poor man's method). Increase the CO2 slowly day by day until the fish is gasping for air (don't do this when you are not around to monitor). Once this is reached, reduce the CO2 slowly until the fish is back to normal. For low light tank, you can reduce further more from this point.Originally Posted by gemo82
As mentioned by Quixotic, test kits are only needed when you start up a new tank or when troubleshooting. You rarely use it (& they are expensive!) after the tank has stabilised. In fact, you are staying somewhere in Toa Payoh, I can offer free test for you. Still have plenty left
In fact, I've tested (verified with test kits) this method twice with great success. You can start cycling your tank but adding in beneficial bacteria (or mulm from another tank) together with some (I meant only a little) fish food. I add fish food alternate days & dose beneficial bacterial everyday. The tank will be fully cycled in 2 weeks time (in my case).
Next, I'll start introducing algae eaters like Otocinclus & Yamato (watch out if you have moss). I only started to introduce fishes a week later. Do not introduce all the fishes you want to have in your tank. Divide them into 2 - 3 batches (1 week apart, 2 weeks is better).
Cheers,
U.K.Lau
Thanks for the valuable advice. I know it is not possible for me to expect to achieve great results from the start of my hobby and I am willing to make mistakes and learn along the way. Just that I am trying to minimise the mistakes as far as I can with the advice from experienced hobbists like you to save cost and get things going instead of reading on without actual hands-on. Since Wonder-Gro seems to work with many, I shall proceed to get them to try out on my first tank.
Think I will get a drop checker set for CO2 monitoring, if that is all I need to monitor CO2 (is it???). Your method sounds great, but since I will be starting out without fishes, I will not have "test specimens" to look out for the "gasping air syptoms".
Also, it'll be a hassle to keep having to adjust the CO2 input when I add plants or fishes slowly, thus I think a drop checker should be handy to warn when CO2 level gets out of the set range (not sure how much to set yet, but I'll worry about that later).
I intend to start planting my tank by end of July, and just concentrate on plants for 2-3 months to let the environment stabilise. Addition of algae eaters will come in when I have problems with algae. Other fishes will join in very slowly from October onwards.
For lazy bones like me, drop checker is just too tedious. In fact, it's easier without any fauna in it. Just blast the tank with plenty of CO2. By the way, how big is your tank & the lighting is like?
Do take note that sufficient CO2 is not good enough without good CO2 circulation in the tank.
Cheers,
U.K.Lau
60cm (L) by 30cm (W) by 35 cm(H).
Lighting is DIY T5 4 X 24W with individual reflectors. 2 X Aquaz 6000K, 1 X Aquaz 9000K and 1 X Acardia Plant Pro.
Guess you are going for high light plants. IMHO, that's a lot of light on a 2 footer! Don't underestimate the power of T5HO with individual reflector installed. You really need to inject lots of CO2 (& also macro & micro) to sustain healthy plant growth.
Cheers,
U.K.Lau
I found that CO2 drop checker quite useful although the response time is quite slow. KH test kit also useful to make KH=4 solution for drop checker. If you want to buy pH test, get the digital one, I felt that it is not easy to match the color cart.
96W for 2ft... maybe too much for newbie. Put it this way more light mean plant will grow faster that include algae
I would recomend 2x24W, once you get hang of it, you can increase it to 4x24W if you want.
since we are hitting this area of discussion, co2 concentration can be measured without the necessary need of test kits as suggested by lau. I would definitely do this if i dont have fauna. However for those with dropcheckers, i have never found at what time of the photoperiod would a green indicator be most ideal.I found that CO2 drop checker quite useful although the response time is quite slow. KH test kit also useful to make KH=4 solution for drop checker. If you want to buy pH test, get the digital one, I felt that it is not easy to match the color cart.
I am currently experimenting without a testkit by just having co2 2 hours before the lights comes on. In theory, it takes 4-6 hours for the indicator to turn color. I have been observing optimum green at 2pm in the afternoon for the below scenerio.
7am - co2
9am - light up
3pm - co2 off
5pm - lights off
I am having 4 T5 tubes, but I will not be switching them all on throughout the photoperiod. 2 tubes at a time, with periodical lights out in between, and all 4 on for a few hours during noon. Trying my best to simulate the natural light, but that is the best I can do unless I get a eballast that can be dimmed (very much wanted that but too expensive).
Digital pH probe is also too expensive for me. Think I will just settle for a drop checker. 4-6 hours for the indicator to change colour however seems quite a slow response time to me. Can I assume that as you are adding in the CO2, the plants are taking them in and thus the concentration of it in the tank takes a longer time to build up to the set ppm for the indicator to change colour? So it may not be the response time of the indicator...
So I should determine what ppm I want to hit, then set my CO2 to a certain bps to achieve a green indicator as soon as possible after lights are on, and to maintain that level. If the indicator goes beyond green at certain time of the day, then instead of lowering the bps, I can momentarily adjust the timer to switch the CO2 off for some periods to adjust the concentration back to the optimal amount?
So to make the KH solution, I need a test kit for KH? How long will the KH solution remain useful in the drop checker?
yes, you need a KH solution to make a 4dkh. I usually change my solution twice a month.
Thank you again torque.
I saw this product online: JBL Permanent Test CO2 plus pH.
http://www.jbl.de/factmanager/index.php?lang=en
Anyone knows if it works in the same way as a drop checker? Is it possible to make the reagent DIY like when using a drop checker? Reading through the product description, I need to get a CH test kit in order to correctly read this product?
http://www.jbl.de/factmanager/frame_...2FpH-Permanent
Yes it look like drop checker to me, just different model
Why then do we need to measure the CH of the tank water to read the chart? Is it because in the usual drop checker, we normally use distilled water to make the reagent instead of the tank water, thus the reading is acutally regardless of the CH of the tank water? If so, does this not make the reading inaccurate as the actual pH of the tank water is not registered in the dropchecker, thus the CO2 level?
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