HiOriginally Posted by vinz
I think there's no chance for that as I use a chiller set at 25c.
Oh god! UA I had hopped that you wouldn't say that. What is this 1-2-punch?
I was thinking I had only one option and that is:
1. Return the fish/shrimps/snails to LFS ( as I don't have a tank big enough to house the fish (4 Otos, 10 Diamond Tetras, 8 Rummynose, 20 Cardinal Tetras, 40-50 RCS).
2. Bombard the tank with AlgaExit since no living things in tank.
3. Get the tank stable ( I don't know how long it may take) and then add fish later.
You can read about the method in this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=203684
There is also a good example of "H2O2 nuke treatment" done locally by aquarius for his BBA infested tank: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...028#post773028
Those are indeed drastic measures, but they seem to work. I guess for really persistent algae issues, sometimes it's better to just get rid of it once and for all.
Hi Dennis,
I was using 2 in-line diffusers.
One an Intense brand and another UP brand.
I found the UP brand to be so good in quality that I had replaced the Intense brand with another UP brand diffuser. I had to do some tweaking to get the Co2 levels but the plants grew much better.
The photos of my plants with all that pearling was taken at that time.( please refer to post #84 in this thread)
I clean my 2 external canisters ( Eheim 2080) once one month.
As for light vacuuming, I do it during once a week when doing water change. Since my plant mass is high, I try to do it where ever my cleaner can reach.
My Micro consist of : Fe 8.2%, Mn 1.82%, Zn 1.16%,B 1.05%, Cu 0.23%, Mo 0.15% )
Before 2 weeks ago, dosage was 1/4 tsp dosed 2 time a week.
My current dose is 1/4 + 1/8 teaspoon.
After this new dosage, my red plants (Ludwigia palustris & Alternanthera reineckii 'rosaefolia) have become more red and are growing taller. Previously it used to be copper colour.
Do you think copper is high?
I just took a photo of the tank a few minutes ago. I will do water change and trimming tomorrow.
I'm intending to take off the carpet plants ( monte carlo) as BBA is showing up on it also.
The ORANGE shaded area is the one with the most BBA growth.
Please excuse the messy scape. I'm constantly fighting BBA that I can't focus on scaping.
BBA growth has been the same for the past 4 months, only now it is showing up on different places.
Just to give idea of the damage BBA has caused to my tank.
This is my tank before and after BBA attack.
Come to think of it, my tank is a tough fighter. When compared with Jan'2015 and now, it has improved so much. If only BBA can be controlled.
Hi UA,
Thanks for the links. Please take a look at my reply above to Dennis with photos and let me know your feedback. Thank you so much.
BTW when you say " it's better to just get rid of it once and for all.", can BBA be gotten rid off once and for all? Can't it come back if there is Co2 problems again?
From my experience, i have bought plants that came with visible BBA coating their leaves and managed to completely clear it all away before introduction to my tanks.
I basically dipped the BBA infected plants into a container of water with concentrated dosage of H2O2 (let it fizzle for a few minutes), then put them into another container of water with overdose of AlgExit + Excel (soak for 2-3 days), as the BBA die off i then transfer the plant into a quarantine tank whereby the resident cherry shrimps eat up the remaining dead BBA and clean up the plant. Once the plant is clean, i then transfer it to plant in my main tanks.
Its like the "One-Two Punch" treatment, but in a smaller scale and only focused on treating the affected plants.
So far those "cured" plants and the tanks they are in have not exhibited any BBA issues, even in the low-tech ones without any Co2 injection or excel dosing... so its possible to clear BBA completely. It doesn't matter if nutrients are high or low or Co2 is stable or not, if BBA is totally eradicated from plants and the tank environment, it will not appear again.
BBA is an introduced algae, it has to be brought in by infected plants or hardscape... thats why some tanks with the best conditions still get it, while other tanks even with terrible conditions never get it at all.
It is indeed more difficult to get rid of BBA once it appears and establishes in a tank, since bits of it already spread to everything, including the filter bio-media and attached equipments... so the only way to get rid of it is to do the treatment procedure for the entire tank (and everything connected to it).
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
Stumbled across an interesting fertilisation and algae control method that I have not heard of.
Discription of Method: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...s-summary.html
Discussion: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...iscussion.html
Quite long and I'm still reading, but I found some interesting information. Will need time to digest.
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Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
I've introduced plants with BBA into my tanks before (mild cases) and they disappear by themselves over time (weeks) without interference, same for plants that I bought from the store with hair algae etc so I never did bother dipping my plants. However, if BBA is everywhere, a nuke/restart sequence will be a faster cure. Dipping to remove spores/visible algae does work as a concept if done consistently - there are many ways to manage algae in that sense.
Filet-O-Fish 's tank is an interesting study. Overall plant health looks okay though the tank does look much better in sept, the more recent pics lack coloration brought about by robust growth - and much more compact; did you change the lights or something? The limnophila aromatica in the recent pic looks very green compared to before, with elongated internodes. The lobelia also elongates quite a lot. Hmm...
One thing about substrate vac is that I think it should be done once in a very long while, but if you disturb it every week it kicks up ammonia/organic matter which I find gives rise to algae spores blooming. Definitely recommend not disturbing it every week. The effect is significant.
If you give me an email I can send you a research paper on BBA; there are no quick answers in there but since it's a major issues here might as well read up more on it
Side note on copper; yes the amount does seem very high in proportion to Fe... it suggests the origin of the fert is based on terrestrial fertilizer rather than being designed inherently for aquatic use. Copper has the same toxicity to aquatic animals/plants as does mercury to terrestrial animals; many of the anti-algae products out there utilize copper as an active ingredient. It is part of standard trace mix for plants, but only a miniscule amount is needed.
I've tried this actually, and it does seem to work as described. The rebuttals to it are also as interesting though
Hi UA,
I'm now goint to get the Tropica's 1-2 plants as they're pest and algae free. I remember when I bought all my plants from a LFS in Yishun area, the very next 3 to 4 days later, I got BBA on my wood. I also got tons of pond snails and as a added bonus 6 to 8 damselfly nymphs. At that BBA was my last worry. I was fighting these pests.
Great tip. I've note of this. Thanks. :-)
Read the whole link for this process. Seems kind of easy to do. Before I try this method, any tips or precautions to take note of?
So far I have heard about this only from you. I glad to know that once its out, its totally out.
Last nite while doing PWC, I notice BBA patches coming off easily with little effort. Maybe this is a good sign? But I'm not taking any chances.
I have had many occasions, where the BBA would turn pinkish on its own but it would grow on different places and even bigger.
But I can safely say my tank is nowhere as bad as aquarius's in this forum. That guys has lots guts to fight on such a huge level.
Cheers. :-)
Hi Vinz,
Thank you so much for the link. The article really blew my mind when I read it. It has managed to reset my view of algae control and fertilization.
Take Care. :-)
Hi Dennis :-)
Thanks for your insightful reply.
I'm still using AquaZonic IP3 LED lights. I have set it at 50% light intensity. In the Sept 2014 photo, I had used 100% of intensity and all plants doing very well. Ever since Sept due to BBA, I've been having the light at 50%.
I think I must have mentioned this before, the trouble all started when I tried a Co2 reactor. That's when BBA really grew bigger. Before that it was hardly noticeable and very much under control.
Could this be related to the 50% light, since the plants you mentioned above are high light plants? Also my Hygrophila difformis's leaves are lobed in appearance, instead of pinnate.
Thanks for this tip. I had always thought that weekly vacuuming was necessary. I guess this is where shrimps help in cleaning this substrate.
I got the traces from a planted tank website in UK.
Dennis, can this be the reason why my shrimps are dying at a fast rate, especially my Amano shrimps. Recently I lost 20 of them within 1 months.
If I want to change my Trace, where do you suggest I get my supplies from.
The only place I know of is Lush Gro (Dr.Malick's). I saw this trace for planted tank at their website. I think they're selling each mineral at 100 grams each.
http://www.singaporehydroponics.com/...d=70&Itemid=76
Package Deals for Planted Tank Enthusiastics
L3 HPC - Package Deal 3
Trace Elements Pack for Plants
contains 100 g each of:
ZnSO4 (Zinc sulfate)
CuSO4(Copper(II) sulfate)
Fe-EDTA 13% Fe(Iron)
MnSO4(Manganese(II) sulfate)
That trace mix won't work for planted tanks... Hmm I think the Lushgro micros liquid can work, but I'm not sure of the exact proportions of that mix. I use plantex CSM + B dry powder that is available from the US very cheaply. It has less than half the copper compared to your trace mix and people already make noise - I think on fast growing tanks, the high uptake rate of plants can mitigate the effect of having elevated copper levels, but shrimps can be quite sensitive to it
I don't think decreasing light will help mitigate BBA; I've seen plenty of low light tanks have it. On the other hand, neither does having excessive light cause it to bloom more often.
You don't have to abandon your current trace mix. Just buy chelated Fe powder to mix it with, so that by proportion you have higher Fe levels but lower trace levels. The hydroponics shop sells Fe EDTA 13% I think, which will work if you mix it with your trace mix in a 2:1 Fe EDTA 13% : your trace mix ratio.
Last edited by Xiaozhuang; 19th May 2015 at 01:29.
Hi Dennis
Is this the CSM+B mix you mentioned:
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
Yea, its giving me some enlightenment too. Haven't had a lot of time to read, so still only at page 14. Pity that the DrPez.net links are broken. I found DrPez.org, but the links do not work by replacing .net with .org. Would be great to see his debate with Barr. On the other hand, if its in Spanish, a lot will be lost in translation.
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Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
Hey, Filet-o-fish. Not sure where you're at with the MCI thread, but Christian Rubilar is of the opinion that BBA is typical with CSM+B usage. Just pointing out for you to investigate more... around post 181.
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Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
Well, the "One-Two Punch" treatment is full scale chemical warfare in the tank... so there will be casualties, the weaker plants will melt and you'll need to have a suitable temporary tank to hold the livestock for a while until the main tank is stablized again.
It is a drastic measure, so only done as a last resort.
Hi Vinz,
Thanks for tip. I'll look into it. The article is a good bedtime read.
BTW, I have noticed that for most algaes, there's always some definitive cause and cure. But not for BBA.
I'm still searching for the exact triggers of BBA.
Local LFSs say my flow is too much for a 4 feet, my No3 and Po needs to be in a certain ratio like 16:2
Forums say, inconsistent Co2, not enough flow, fertilizers imbalance, etc...etc.
My head is spinning.
But one thing I learnt from the link you provided is that one should look at algae as some form of indicator that says something in the tank is out of balance. Once we change the mindset, algae seems not too bad.
Cheers.
Hi UA, do I have choice?Well, the "One-Two Punch" treatment is full scale chemical warfare in the tank... so there will be casualties, the weaker plants will melt and you'll need to have a suitable temporary tank to hold the livestock for a while until the main tank is stablized again.
It is a drastic measure, so only done as a last resort.
Anyway the article says that shrimps may be the most affected. I don't why but suddenly even my RCS are kicking the bucket. I strongly suspect the copper in the trace.
When I initially setup the tank, I was using ADA step 1 and K only. My RCS was reproducing like crazy but after I switched to EI, the population dwindled. I thought it was the Congo Tetras that were eating up the shrimps.
I could be wrong as I started EI dosing and introduced the Congos at the same time.
BTW, I wanted to ask you if dosing Hydrogen Peroxide will have any effect on the beneficial bacteria in filter media. Do you recommend removing it?
Cheers.
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