Need Advice on Setting Up a Dwarf Cichlid Tank

[illumnae]

Hi, I'm thinking of converting my 2x1x1 discus grow out tank into a lightly planted low tech dwarf cichlid tank...still deciding between apistos (was told they were more interesting fish) and rams (much cheaper!)...

was just wondering...my tank should be big enough for a trio of rams (2 females 1 male?) and i was thinking of doing that as i read somewhere that doing that would help spread aggression out and would be easier on the females...is that true or should i just keep a pair? or more rams? i will probably keep my current 2 albino BNs in there as algae crew and put a few small cories in as cleanup crew...maybe 6-8 tetras to help calm them down? would this be an advisable setup? (questions also apply if i decide to keep apistos instead of rams)

next...how are rams sexed? i was told look for reddishness on the belly of females...but i read that this red only appears when the females are ready to spawn...but given the conditions in LFS where rams are sold (overcrowdedness, bare bottom etc), i doubt the females are in breeding condition...so how would i ensure that i get my 1 male 2 female setup? or is that impossible? apistos can be sexed using colours right?

sorry for so many questions and thank you for taking the time to read and answer this! =)

[wks]

I think you have already made up your mind to keep rams, right? For better quality rams (don't buy balloon rams unless you really fancy them), you can buy them from either Biotope or Ecoculture.

[illumnae]

thank you for your reply bro wks...i'm currently preferring rams but i haven't made up my mind yet =) i think alot of my decision depends upon the answers to the questions i asked above...

for example i'd really like to keep a 1 male 2 female trio...so if it's impossible to sex the rams in the shop i won't keep them and keep apistos instead which are easier to sex. also depends on whether it'd be more advisable to just keep a trio in my 2x1x1 or whether i should keep more...if it's just a trio i'd be more open to keeping apistos, but if more then i think rams may be a better idea as they're cheaper...

so yepyep i hope i'll be able to get answers and make a decision soon! =) cichlids facinate me...first discus and now these dwarfs =)

[Cacatuoides]

Rams are sexed by the extension of the first few dorsal membranes, the end of the dorsal row and also by color too. Rams at biotope and ecoculture are of much better quality and easier to sex. You can also buy a group to be safe.

for a 2ft densely planted tank, you can put in 2 pairs of rams...as for apistos, 1 pair is the rule

[fisherw]

Go to this link:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profile...ies.php?id=421

If you go to the image drop menu and look at photos of both the male and female, you will notice the slight difference in the rear end of the dorsal fin. The male's is sharp while the female's is curved.

However, sometimes the lfs carry only males.

[illumnae]

thanks for all your advice and tips =) would getting pairs be better than a 1 male 2 female trio? also...if i do end up getting rams, do i just pick any 2 males and 2 females and hope they pair up into 2 pairs?

[valice]

The dorminant male will force out the other male most of the time. And then the male will pick and choose which female to spawn with. After that, when the ripe female wants to spawn, she will chase the other female out of her territory.

There is also a new way to sex which i read from another forum. Seems to be pretty accurate.
That method is to observe the lateral spot on the body of the Ram. Males will have a solid black lateral spot with blue rimmings (can be just formed by spots of blue) while the female will have blue spots within the black lateral spot.

You can use this method in conjunction with the dorsal method. Usually, the 3rd ray/spine on the dorsal fins on the males (mature ones, juveniles will be abit difficult) will be longer than any other ray. But the female will not have this characteristic.

Another method, from sexing of apistogramma, is to look at the anal fin. Females are round while males are shaper. I have yet to confirm this method on Rams. But it might be worthed a try.

[illumnae]

The dorminant male will force out the other male most of the time. And then the male will pick and choose which female to spawn with. After that, when the ripe female wants to spawn, she will chase the other female out of her territory.

so in that case for a 2x1x1, would it just be better for me to get 1 male and 1 female pair to reduce bullying on the non dominant male and the unripe female?

thanks for all the sexing methods! really comprehensive and helpful =) i think i might head down to biotope today to take a look...maybe polyart too as they just got in a new batch of german rams, according to their blog...are polyart fish good in quality too?

[illumnae]

just called polyart and biotope up...polyart selling rams at 1.20 apiece while biotope has a pair for $30 O_O such a huge difference in price!

[valice]

One comes from Singapore farm, one comes from German farm. You decide.

[illumnae]

haha i'm just about to leave my house to check out biotope's $30 pair =) gonna have to transfer my grown out discus over the next few days and put in substrate and plants to prepare...good thing the discus have cycled out this tank for 5 months already so no need to re-cycle it =)

do you have any recommendations as to substrate (i don't want ADA aquasoil though...) and plants for a low tech setup? no CO2 and preferably no ferts as well...

[illumnae]

hmm was at biotope earlier today...their ram pair is beautiful, but found that apisto cacatuoides "triple red" and apisto agassizii "red" wild pairs are going for the same price...now huge dilemma which to get as the rams and triple red are so colourful and pretty...and the wilds are, well, wilds and that's an attraction in itself!

what's everyone's recommendation for a newbie to dwarf cichlids? =)

[Wackytpt]

Some of the easy apisto you can try out are ap cacatuoides, ap agassizii and Ap.trifasciata.

[Quixotic]

... found that apisto cacatuoides "triple red" and apisto agassizii "red" wild pairs are going for the same price...

Hmm... these should be aquarium strains, instead of wild fishes.

[illumnae]

the triple red was just labelled as triple red, while the other one was labelled as Apistogramma agassizii "Red" "Wild" and there were many of them in the tank (i think 2-3 tanks full of them)...i'm a newbie so not sure of how to identify =)

is the upkeep of such apisto as mentioned above hard? i'm decommissioning the discus tank and switching to dwarf cichlid as i'll be starting work soon and can't afford to do 70% water change every 1-2 days anymore...i have a pretty good filtration system (3 tier overhead filter with 2 trays of biomedia, 1 course and 1 fine sponge and activated carbon) so hopefully maintenance for dwarf cichlids will be minimal?

[Quixotic]

Ah, the A. cacatuoides "triple red" is definitely aquarium strain. The "Hmm.." is in regards to A. agassizii "red". If it is labelled as wild, then that should be wild.

These are "beginner" fishes for those who are new into dwarf cichlids. They are pretty hardy and don't really need specific specialised care.

[illumnae]

thank you for your advice quixotic =) i notice that most bros here are very into apistos, and not many are into keeping rams so i'm sure these apistos are much more interesting to keep? =)

is there anything i should particularly look out for when picking the fish? or if any more experienced bro is going down to biotope anytime soon perhaps i could tag along and get some help choosing? =)

[wks]

Hi illumnae, try and read up about keeping apistogrammas and breeding them first before you embark on your first purchase. The best person in Biotope who can advise you on apisto is Mr Thio, the boss himself. If he is not in, you can consult Mr Lee, the other boss.
All the apistogrammas are of high quality. Normally Biotope's apistogrammas are sold in pairs. The only problems which can give you headaches are price and the kind fish you want for your tank.

[illumnae]

hi wks, thanks for your reply =)

when i went down to biotope today the person at the shop was this chinese speaking uncle...dunno who he is also as it's my first time there =) i'm still abit wary of keeping apistos as the price is quite high for me (i'm still a student at the moment haha) and i'm afraid of doing something wrong and flushing my money down the toilet bowl literally!

that's why in my earlier post i sounded like i was preferring rams to apistos haha =) but then when i went down to biotope today the triple red just looked so pretty that i'm so tempted now =) been in contact with wackytpt who's letting go of a trio of trifasciatas so that is another option for me...i'm just abit hesitent at the $15 apiece price as i'm on a shoestring budget as mentioned earlier =)

i've been trying to look for tips on keeping/breeding apistos in this forum, but there's not much info...alot of nice pictures though =) i'll probably have to make a decision soon, but at the moment i am still in a huge dilemma...interesting but expensive apistos or cheaper rams hehe (i decided that if i get rams i'll buy the singapore farm ones, as polyart has nice specimens just arrived...$1.80 apiece only...but the problem of course is accurately sexing them haha)...would keeping rams help me understand the keeping/breeding of apistos better since they both are south american small cichlids? if so i might just get the rams and upgrade to apistos when i start working =)

of course i might just get so tempted by bro wackytpt's trifasciatas and just get them tomorrow lol...any advice on apistos vs rams would be greatly appreciated for this indecisive newbie!


P.S. sorry i'm being so annoyingly indecisive...re-reading this thread i'm even annoyed with myself! but i'm really quite torn and undecided and i can't seem to come to a conclusion =( so i really need tips/advice

[Cacatuoides]

Definitely a wise choice to start with apistos rather than from rams to apistos, as anyone interested in dwarf cichlids will eventually be entangled with the amazing apistos...

There's a lot of information and care sheets available on the internet, try searching for articles and stuff, they are good enough for you to know the basic requirements of keeping apistos.

Wackytpt's Ap. Trifasciata is a good specimen, i'm sure they'll do well in your tank if setup properly.

You can setup your tank with:
1) adasoil or normal lapis sand with sera peat granules
2) driftwood with java ferns
3) sponge filter
4) caves (optional for breeding)

Welcome to the apisto club!!