A lot of questions on planting

[shrimppaste]

Hi Everyone,

I am going to embark on a huge project. I am going to start a 5 X 2 X 2 tank. And I have a few questions that I need to ask.

1. If I am starting out a predominantly moss and livewort tank. How am I going to make sure the tank is densely planted right from the beginning to prevent Algae? I am saying this because I know Pellia would take a long time to grow and it is too expensive for me to buy a lot at one go to start.

2. How should I fertilise the tank if these are the plant list I am thinking. Mini Pellia, Cryptocoryne Balansae, E. Tenellus, Java fern. Maybe the small one you are saying

3. In the past I have been using EI. But now that KNO3 is illegal, what would be the best replacement?

4. Lastly, is Ei even needed for such a tank?

Thank you so much.

[lorba]

Hi,

my opinion below:

Hi Everyone,

I am going to embark on a huge project. I am going to start a 5 X 2 X 2 tank. And I have a few questions that I need to ask.

1. If I am starting out a predominantly moss and livewort tank. How am I going to make sure the tank is densely planted right from the beginning to prevent Algae? I am saying this because I know Pellia would take a long time to grow and it is too expensive for me to buy a lot at one go to start.

1) Use anti-chlorine and make sure that plant condition and health is not affected.
2) Ensure pH is adequate. This could allow plant to pick up faster in initial stage. We have some high ph tap water around.
3) Controlled lighting and fertilization regime.

2. How should I fertilise the tank if these are the plant list I am thinking. Mini Pellia, Cryptocoryne Balansae, E. Tenellus, Java fern. Maybe the small one you are saying

Any fert with controlled regime is fine. To be careful, select ferts that are designed for low light or slow growing plant species.

3. In the past I have been using EI. But now that KNO3 is illegal, what would be the best replacement?

How much of a success did you had with EI?

[Shadow]

1) you can add temporary stem plants, floating plants or any fast growing plants.

2) Use EI

3) You can try CaNO3

4) Not sure what you are trying to ask, but EI can be use in any tank size.

[shrimppaste]

Hi Shadow,

Thanks so much.

So if we are using EI, how do we dose CANO3?

Haha it is funny how it all comes back one round. You're the one who taught me how to use EI and I have been using it very very effectively. There's not a single drop of algae in my tank and all my plants are doing very well. So when I know I cannot get KNO3 anymore, I was quite at a loss.

So with CANO3 is the dosing the same? You told me the dosing regime for KNO3. Is there one for CANO3 as well?

Is CANO3 even a powder? And, lastly, will CANO3 add unnecessary hardness from the calcium to the tank?

Thank you and sorry for bombarding you with all these questions.

[ranmasatome]

Wait.......

This tank is going to be a 5 x 2 x 2 HIGH TECH with CO2??

or

5x 2 x 2 low tech? w occasional dosing?

[Shadow]

To be honest, I never use CaNO3 yet, though I probably force to use it soon unless someone giving up hobby and selling KNO3

Assuming 50 gallons tank, adding 4 gram will increase NO3 concentration by 11.1 ppm and 3.59 ppm of Ca. Based on APC fertilator, Ca target range is 10-30 ppm. You also will need to add K, maybe from K2SO4

Ca will increase the kH but not sure to what level but based on general hardness table, adding 3.59 ppm probably wont increase much, it may not even detectable using typical test kit.

General hardness table (Based on wiki):
Very soft: 0-70 ppm 0-4 dGH
Soft: 70-140 ppm 4-8 dGH
Slightly hard: 140-210 ppm 8-12 dGH
Moderately hard: 210-320 ppm 12-18 dGH
Hard: 320-530 ppm 18-30 dGH
Very hard: >530 ppm >30 dGH

[Shadow]

Wait.......

This tank is going to be a 5 x 2 x 2 HIGH TECH with CO2??

or

5x 2 x 2 low tech? w occasional dosing?

Yeah that will make lots of different

[blue33]

You may start to see the leaf getting bigger as you add more calcium until the stage the plant cannot take in calcium anymore, it will just die off. How much calcium nobody knows, until the leaf getting bigger you should be taking note of it.

[shrimppaste]

I am also leaning towards low tech. But as I have only ever done 2 small low tech tanks of 2 feet each, I am quite apprehensive of doing it. I mean all the plants I am choosing will be low tech. So another question that just popped to mind, if we do low tech, with chiller, should we still use CO2? Or let me rephrase. If we do a tank with CO2 but not fertilizer, then would it cause algae bloom? I was reading Tom Barr was saying if there's lots of CO2 there would be no algae. Cause he was saying main cause of algae lack of CO2 and lack of lighting. So would it be advisable to do CO2 but no ferts?

[Shadow]

hm... do you have data to support that? more importantly how high is high?

Based on APC Ca target is 10-30ppm does adding 3.59ppm x3 should not be over the target level. There will be water change at the end of the week to reset it.

[blue33]

seems like you dont understand what i said or dont understand english. Just like the oil film thing etc etc... would not go further on this. sigh...

hm... do you have data to support that? more importantly how high is high?

[sfk7]

Guess you should take some pointers from barmby's setup which was showcased recently and its the same size as yours.

My take on it is that with predominantly moss and liverwort its going to be abit difficult to ward off algae as my experience with them is that they have a dormant period when first introduced to the tank before they start to grow / flourish. That period coupled with no significant mass of fast growing plants might give the algae a chance to overrun your tank.

It'll be better to get a well mix of fast and slow growing plants and i guess all the planting gurus can give better advice than me.

[shrimppaste]

Yah,

I think I will have a lot of fast growing plant that I will remove later on. THe reason why I wanted to do an all moss is one word BIOPLAST haha. I saw their tank full of moss and pellia and I really want to do something like that

[madnugget]

haha, i was inspired to make my 4ft tank like bioplast and even considering using MH!! but i cant even cope with my 4x54w, algaes are everywhere =(

[bluebubbles]

Yah,

I think I will have a lot of fast growing plant that I will remove later on. THe reason why I wanted to do an all moss is one word BIOPLAST haha. I saw their tank full of moss and pellia and I really want to do something like that

Than you should try to get more tips from the boss. The first answer he will give you is- your tank must be cooling - cold otherwise he will not sell his mosses 'collectibles' to you. The rest like fertilzer, co2...etc you must dig out more from him through regular visits cum purchase as a rapport to kick start your dream mosses tank. I saw his lighting not that strong, but again his tank is near the corridor area and sunlight can penetrate.

[shrimppaste]

Yah,

I have got chiller and of course moss must be cooling. I think I will try to plant some fast plants in pots. then take them out after the moss takes over

[shrimppaste]

Hi Shadow,

So if I choose to go back to EI on this tank. With mostly moss and fern and cryptocoryne, do I need to have high lighting as well? I bought 2 sets of 4 X 80W T5 and now if I am doing mostly Moss and ferns etc. Do you think one set of 4 X 80W would be sufficient for my 5 X 2 X 2 Tank?

Thanks,

Kind Regards,
Mulyadi

[ranmasatome]

So i presume that if you are injecting co2 and dosing and going with the lights that you're going high tech? or maybe mid tech..haha..

But.. you really wanna change water for this big tank so often meh?

[shrimppaste]

Hi Ranma,

I was thinking of doing high tech then after the plant all stabilised then to leave it as low tech. I have done this a few times with smaller tanks and high light fast growing plants. After they start running I will let it run as low tech. By that time the plant would be self sufficient and the algae would not be able to take over.

[ranmasatome]

Hi Ranma,
By that time the plant would be self sufficient and the algae would not be able to take over.

Err... be careful with this statement loh...its not really true.